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Hello!

I signed up for the introductory game at Gen Con on a last minute whim (I like to try something new each year). I hadn't heard of SK until right before event reg went live, but I followed the link in the games description and was intrigued by what I saw. So, here I am.

I'd love to see more, actually. Is there an update on when the playtest material will be available? Or more actual play reports from your personal playtests?

Thanks,

Keyes

Just thought to add this. For anyone reading this who hasn't yet signed up for either Gen Con game, the two time slots are Friday at 2 pm (RPG0903028) and Saturday at noon (RPG0903029). Hope to see you there!

Update 4/19: If I'm reading Gen Con's registration site correctly, and I think I am, there is only one ticket left for the Friday game and only three tickets left for the Saturday game. Get yours now and I'll see you there!

I just got to test SK out today, specifically just the combat. In this case, it was a tavern fight against two other players; I'm not sure about how combat against non-player enemies would work out. In any case, the combat system is awesome :D

BTW, if I horribly bastardize any terms you had set up for things below, my apologies… I’m just going by what makes sense to call things in my mind. Keep in mind also, a number of these are just going to be my base instinct upon reading things without too much playtesting experience. My playtesting was mostly with Free Sword, and some Guardsman. Also, low die sizes have a habit of making me go “eew, suckage” but they really aren’t THAT bad in the system, so some old bias is going to be apparent.

Here are some of my first general thoughts:
• Characters are simple to make, and a sheet of paper serves just fine as a character sheet even without experience with the system. *thumbs up*
• The system itself seems pretty easy to learn. It only took a round or two for me to get a good grasp on the combat system. We didn’t use magic, so I don’t really know how that works, though… but I can’t imagine it being too drastically different. Overall, the learning curve seems awesomely low! Took me only 15mins to have the basic rules explained and to roll up a character. *thumbs up*
• Combat rounds going all at once is just cool.
• Stats don’t seem to make or break your character, at least as far as combat goes. They didn’t really have too heavy an influence (except HRT, which I’ll get into in a moment), beyond the occasional use of it for an attack/defense die, or for prerequisites. Given you’re going for a somewhat rules-light system… *thumbs up*
• Good font choices!
• Seems like you don’t need large die pools, though I haven’t played enough to know; however, avoiding having to throw 5 dice, add them together, extra modifiers, etc. is both nice for ease of use and it just seems cleaner. *thumbs up*
• Combat Styles more or less define everything you can do in combat. At the same time, they’re really open to interpretation, so you have a lot of flexibility in describing what you do! It seems like what you can do in combat is described very definitely without really obstructing roleplay. *thumbs WAY up*

Here are some of my comments/reservations/concerns/errors noted/etc:
• Basically, it’d be really easy to cheat and change your choice based on what other people are doing once you know what it is. Trust is important, but why tempt people? Assigning each combatant a number and putting a die facing up with that number for your target should work fine, though… not that people should be cheating in RPGs, and most people are fine to not do it, but the fact that everyone goes at once and that it’s very easy to do makes it incredibly tempting.
• HRT seems like, by far, the best combat stat. How often can you invoke inspirations? Once for each of them during each combat? As-is, you can basically just re-roll any attack/defense roll with it, right? Also, can you use more than one inspiration against an attack? Why not just take 8 HRT and take 8 inspirations for 1 each? Sure, having a 4+ lets you stay alive, but the actual benefit of increasing each die size is generally the same as a +1 to the reroll, and potentially changing the win/lose/tie on ties situation depending.
o From a powergaming perspective, min/max around the average number of rounds each combat will probably go. Assuming, say, 5 rounds, take 8hrt, 5x lv1 inspirations, and 1x lv3 inspiration to be used in a pinch (and give it something general enough where you can almost always apply the die size bonus). A reroll seems like it’d always be more useful than a +1 to one reroll for each other reroll you cut out… hell, even then an 8x lv1 inspiration system works even better if you can reroll attacks with it…
• Your basic actions (strike/defend/grab/throw/etc) require dropping off the combat style “grid” (btw, have a word for it?). Sure, works fine, no problem. They all seem to be the same, though. If so, why have it re-printed on every single combat style sheet? Also, Court Sword style has d2/Qck for Defend whereas everyone else is 0/Qck; error or intentional? Every other one is consistent across all styles from what I see.
• I’m not a fan of the shorthand on the combat style sheets. It doesn’t seem like there’s a need to use shorthand like “+1 atk die sz nxt atk” when there appears to be plenty of room. “+1 to next attack’s die size” takes up only slightly more room. As far as reading speed, I’d imagine they’d read at about the same pace as people are used to reading words. Also, honestly, “1dmg + move” is a lot more straightforward than “1 + move” for example. I don’t mind shortening damage to dmg for example, but you went a little crazy with it. Also, it would help make things less ambiguous, like the following…
• Court Sword and Guardsman (and possibly others if I missed it) have the Riposte ability (maneuver? technique? move? is there a word for it?): “Only atk 1 who missed you”. Somewhat ambiguous, and I think it ended up that way in an attempt to save space. Something like “Only attack one target that misses you this round,” for example, might be clearer, and it just looks more professional.
• Moving around seems fairly powerful. Moving to a different area allows you to avoid most attacks the next round. In a small combat, with just a regular move, assuming you have some sort of Charge attack, you’re effectively trading off getting attacked this round for not getting hit in the next. Ultimately that’s no net gain. If you attack on your way out and back in, though, you’re up an attack. Only being able to attack in the target region makes more sense both balance-wise and logically, IMO. Obviously specific abilities that state otherwise could work, but I think that’d be a good way to balance it… of course, Charge/Dive both have a d2 for defense, so you’re leaving yourself pretty open anyway, so it might work out if you keep them that low on defense (or just rule that if it’s a move attack and you attack in the square you’re leaving, your defense die is automatically a d2 regardless of the technique)
• Trick/Scheme actions are 0/d4. This includes switching combat styles, moving, etc. Quite frankly, a d4 as a defense sucks, but I can understand why it’s like that; however, when it comes to switching combat styles, unless you’re dealing with some sort of rock-paper-scissors sort of domination of one combat style over another (ah-ha! this style STOMPS yours!) it doesn’t seem worth basically guaranteeing the next hit on you, given that they’re meant to be balanced. Just moving seems to leave you too open; it’s not like you really gain anything from it other than a new position.
• Damage for various techniques/maneuvers/whatever you call them is a bit ambiguous. It seems safe to assume Lunge, which is just d8/d2 and you rebalance, deals 1 body in damage. The thing is, other techniques (I like that word, we’ll go with that for now) say something like “1 + move,” letting you know there’s one damage. Others even read “0 + effect”. When does an attack NOT deal damage? I would say “whenever it has text but doesn’t have a 1 in there” but then you run into things like Riposte, which, in that case, would do nothing. Keeping things standardized is a beautiful thing. Yeah, you really can get most of it through common sense, but everyone has different basic assumptions.
• Savage Combat Style’s Dive reads “req. altitude,” or “requires altitude”. I’m just assuming that’s not explicitly defined anywhere and people are meant to use common sense. Sure, cool. But it doesn’t say “move” in its effect, so, technically, it’s utterly worthless from a practical standpoint, or never a restriction if you can just RP where in the zone you end up. Given that you (you being Frank Brunner) were using dive to go across areas, IE off the balcony, I’m just gonna assume that’s an oopsie.
• Savage Combat Style’s Climb is 0/d4, “Gain altitude”. What separates that from the 0/d4 of Trick/Scheme? Sure, you’re on the Combat Style “grid,” but you can only go to your basic techniques anyway… seems pointless?
• Savage CS’s (yay, new abbreviation) Bear Hug reads “1 + 1 Str + both grabbed”. OK, first off: both grabbed? what? As in you’re grabbing each other, or you just both count as grabbed (but one would assume the savage has control), or…? Also, what exactly does “+1 str” mean in the context of combat?
• Trick/Scheme seems utterly generic, given it applies to switching combat styles, moving, etc… in other words, the name seems like a bit of a misnomer! But, having not read any of the rules and just gone through a basic playtest, my instinct might be off.
• Not getting hit seems more important than landing blows to me, basically. Especially considering you might get attacked several times in one round, and health supplies are low. Playtesting shows low defense isn’t that bad, but that was a fairly small combat… with several combatants I could see it getting more useful (particularly if you’re drawing a lot of fire). As a Guardsman for my CS, for example, I’d be willing to Shield Bash a ton if I’m getting attacked with any frequency (on that note, what does Unsteady as an effect mean? I’m assuming it means something different than “rebalance” but I’m at a loss…)
• Savage CS’s Mighty Rage: my first thought was “why on earth would you take a 0/d4 just to MAYBE deal 1 extra damage next round? You’re practically guaranteeing someone nails you on any attacks that round, so it seems like trading damage 1 for 1 with that.” Well, OK, if you expect people to be going defense-heavy this round and offensive the next round I can see it being cool. Suddenly, the situational consideration seems a lot cooler. The fact that you can make decisions like that (albeit potentially risky) based on how you think your opponent will act is nice… of course, if they know you just Mighty Rage’d, they’re probably going to try and do something more defensive for their next attack.
• Dagger-and-Wine CS’s Backstab: this really needs to be playtested. 3 damage is a lot, but you’re basically guaranteeing at least two rounds not attacking to potentially get your 3rd round attack in. It seems like it’d be balanced, given the amount of rounds spent prepping it, but 3 damage is a huge spike regardless.
• Dagger-and-Wine CS’s “-1 dmg vs. any armor that is 1 or more higher quality than your weapon”. OK, so, say your only CS is Dagger-and-Wine, and they have said armor benefit. How in the hell are you supposed to even scratch the guy? Tangled Cloak->Disarming Embrace->Between the Ribs for, maybe, one damage and you rebalance. 3 rounds for potential 1dmg, and an extra round for every time Tangled Cloak misses (with only a d6 attack roll). Eew. Dodge into Shadows->Hide in Shadows->Backstab… 3+ rounds for, maybe, 2 damage. If you don’t have another CS to switch to… have fun. Your best bet at that point is probably spamming dodge into shadows/stun into sneak attack for 1dmg on a d8 attack roll every other round. Guardsman is going to wtfpwn them, just using Shield Tactics alone the round before each potential “damage round” for them.
• Free Sword CS, the one I tested most extensively, seems pretty solid. Quite versatile, with the only really notable downside being a lack of a move-based attack.
• Guardsman CS is awesome IMO (see my mention of how high defense rolls seem nicer than offense rolls). Like Free Sword, seems pretty solid. Lack of strong offensive die rolls is its only major downside.
• Parapet Defense CS seems utterly terrible at first glance, but again I don’t know anything about the magic system, don’t know what “You are spellbound” means, etc. Just the whole having to burn a combat style on it for something so situational is…eh. And you’d have to take a 0/d4 round to get into it. And the attack rolls are low (0-d4). And the defense rolls are only a d2-d6 for everything… but, having not used it, I can’t say for sure.
• Arrowheart CS is really hard for me to judge without playtesting, but my first glances point out a couple things. First, it doesn’t mention anywhere the attacks are ranged. Second, the defenses are terri-bad. I mean, d2s for all but one technique? If someone gets near you, you’re getting hit. This means you’re going to be spamming the hell out of Shot on the Run, which ultimately will only net you d4 attacks, so you’ll probably miss with high frequency and get hit almost guaranteedly with your d2 defense should anyone get close. They’d be absolutely awful in close-quarters combat without several areas to escape to with a buffer zone. I don’t know what the called shot mechanic does specifically though, which might possibly be a saving grace…
• Arrowheart CS’s Called Shots don’t have consistent nomenclature, mostly with the position of the (r). See: “Called Shot (r) Held Item” vs “Called Shot: Torso (r)” etc. Torso is the exception to the other three. I personally prefer the “Called Shot: Torso (r)” style.
• Court Sword CS just seems kind of… sucky; however, I don’t fully understand a number of the abilities, and the effects of Rep/Mood/etc on combat.
• I actually didn’t end up with a copy of the Swashbuckler CS sheet when I left. Whoops. When I was looking at it in play though, I didn’t see much use for it. Not necessarily because it was bad, but it didn’t seem to get me anywhere in that particular situation in exchange for the 0/d4 round to get to it. It certainly looked like it might have some uses, but it also seemed somewhat situational. Without having it in front of me, that’s about all I’ve got as far as first impressions.

Please enjoy your great wall of text!

Wow, very thorough report! Yeah, too bad we only got to combat, but hopefully next week we'll find time (though Mike said that there was a conflict next Wed.).

Anyhow...



Very glad to hear that you enjoyed it! It's had pretty consistently good feedback.



Yep, magic isn't all that different. The three big differences are: 1) Magic styles are useful outside of combat also; 2) many magic styles have intermediate maneuvers that only lead to ultimate results rather than cause an effect themselves (like syllables or words in an incantation - nothing happens until the incantation is finished - thus re-balancing or interrupting a caster is probably even more effective and important than it is in physical combat); and 3) magic hates magic, that is, there is interference that can create and amplify wild magic surges and dampen intended effects when two or more spellbound creatures are in the same area.



No waiting!



Right. No die pools. You could roll, I suppose, four dice at once under the right circumstances (inspiration, mood, and roll-over past d20 on a bonus, plus the regular die), but that would be it. And the inspiration and mood die probably wouldn't be rolled together with the others.

Ok, I'm going to stop quoting now and just go through the rest one by one. :)

Targeting and cheating: Yep, either trust everyone, or decide on a scheme for designating targets. There are a number of schemes noted in the Combat Primer and the main rule book, like placing your figure facing your target, or using a different color die, or numbers, etc. But really we haven't had much trouble with it.

Aw shoot, I'm getting interrupted. I'll add more later. Yeah, Heart is a bit of an uber-stat for combat. Not as much as we saw today, though, because no one was using any styles that sap your Strength or Quickness (and thus eliminate styles and variations because some styles have minimum Str or Qck requirements). So you do need to keep your other stats up. Also, at higher levels, the grand styles have more attacks like d10/Qck, and stat damage is more common. And then there are chases, investigations, explorations, social scenes, etc.

Got to go... interrupted. Back later or early tomorrow.

Thanks, and looking forward to all of it! (Gen Con, the intro game, and the playtest material).

All right, I am stealing some time here to go through your post. Good stuff!

Heart: Yep, heart by way of inspirations is very important in combat. You still need the other stats to be high - quite high, really - to avoid being knocked out of your style. And you need the other stats high for maneuvers like Throw, Hide, etc. Reason is very important in some combats because it's the perception stat. Still, Heart is very important. But it's not so important in the game as a whole that when I make a character, I automatically max. out Heart. In fact, I don't think anyone has ever put Heart as their biggest stat. So I'm taking that as a good sign that it's not Heart-uber-alles. However, I am toying with the idea of Heart being a fixed stat at 6, and you distribute your other scores as normal. What would you think of that? It takes power out of players' hands, but it avoids a player feeling like he 'must' keep Heart out of his bottom two die scores. Overall I think I prefer leaving power in the players' hands. After all, I can see about three or four different character concepts off the top of my head that would keep Heart low (3 or 4) and still be quite viable.

Yes, you can only use an inspiration once each per combat. Any more and it becomes a distraction instead of an inspiration. Also, no more than one inspiration at a time. It's too hard to flashback to multiple things that give your life meaning; you focus on one inspiration at a time, seeing with perfect clarity how you must forge ahead in the task at hand.

There are a couple of reasons not to take 8 inspirations of 1 each. First, it's a lot easier to gain or lose points than to gain a new inspiration altogether. That is, if an inspiration drops to 0 meaning you lose it altogether, it's hard to get a new one. So it's nice to have it at 2+ so you have a buffer. Second, like you say, having one inspiration at 4+ gives you some powerful narrative control. So far those conflicting things tend to produce characters with one big inspiration and a few small ones. Seems like a nice mix.

Agreed about the re-rolls. But inspirations have uses outside of combat too, and sometimes you need very, very high rolls. The investigation and exploration system is similar to 3:16, and you can end up staring at some high target numbers if the GM dumps a lot of his threat into one challenge.

That Court Sword d2/Qck Defend action is a typo. I'll go stomp it out...

The shorthand is changing per our discussion today. The goal of course is to have just enough info on the style sheet that no one has to refer to any rulebooks, yet the style sheet still has white space.

Yeah, I agree about the Move being powerful. Def. going to make it that you count in both areas for getting hit, but you can only attack the area you're moving into.

About the d4 defense for switching combat styles... I'm torn. It can't be too easy to switch combat styles, or else the predictability, and hence many tactics, are ruined. So there needs to be something. Maybe just make it a d6. I definitely don't want to go higher than that because I don't really want tons of people constantly switching styles: if you're fighting, you should be fighting in a particular style. Hm.

All the notes on individual maneuvers are good. Yeah, Dive should have a Move along with it. Climb is important because it lets you succeed at climbing, which may otherwise require a Strength check. Bear Hug - yeah, both grabbed means both are grabbed (can't move, only balancing or grabbing maneuvers are possible).

Trick/Scheme... maybe change to Misc. Action... but I kind of like Trick/Scheme. Hm.

Mighty Rage, that's exactly right. It's all about the timing. It's great if you know or suspect someone is going to be blocking, riposting, parrying, etc. I've seen people use it (actually I think I've used it myself!). Still, you're right that it's not the strongest maneuver to follow a Rage. I was thinking of having it boost your Strength, weapon value, or do even more damage on a crit.

Dagger-and-wine, well, right. Of course, it should lose to many other styles one-on-one because it's not supposed to be a true martial one-on-one style. It's a lurker, assassinate-from-the-shadows, unexpected blow style. Should work best with other people in the combat where you can get lost (hence the power of the Duck and Slip maneuver). Backstab has done well in other playtests. Parapet Defense, right, it's really only meant to be used against magic.

Hm. Arrowheart was supposed to be terrible at close range because, you know, don't bring a bow to a swordfight. And archers are supposed to use cover (an environment trick) to set themselves up for defense against ranged attacks. But hm. If it's looking that unappetizing, maybe there should be a few better defenses. It is true that only one character that I can remember has ever used it a lot. Hm. Keyes? Robilar? MyeV? Anyone else?

Speaking of anyone else, I know the primer isn't out yet (maybe tonight), but if you see anything in here you want to comment on, please do!

Anyhow, lots to do. I was so excited after the playtest yesterday. Tons of fun. Hm, we need to get Mike, Izzy, etc. to post up here.

Good feedback! Thanks.

Yeah, Arrowheart, I've been looking at. LOL I've been looking at all of them trying to get the format/layout perfect for the Primer. Such a pain that is! Anyway, yeah, Arrowheart. I think it may need a touch more on the melee side. I'm thinking of how Legolas stabbed the orc in the eye with the arrow... that was cool. Cool is good. Of course, I don't want to go unrealistic cool, but yeah, Arrowheart probably needs a tiny melee outlet.