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Edit: Known Issues. Here's stuff that I've changed or am in the process of changing, just so you won't have to email me stuff that's already been covered.
* p. 28 Adding info on why weapon Quality is important/how it comes up in-game (so that you retain full effectiveness vs. armor like masterwork silkmetal, dragon plate, etc.)
* Index fighting styles
* p. 255 formatting error. Sigh, how does stuff like this happen?
* Index needs to be hyperlinked like the Table of Contents is
* Table of Contents page numbers have some weird slight waviness to them
* Wizard and warrior are transposed in alphabetical order. Not sure if this will get fixed right now because it will require changing ToC, hyperlins, index entries. But it's on the list.
* "Trapped Spells" heading in ToC doesn't match "Scrolls, Potions, Candles" heading in text.
Thanks to everyone who has provided feedback so far!
If you've got an idea for another appendix that's needed, or another table in Appendix Three, this is also a good thread for that.
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So far, the only quibble I have is with a few Martial Talents. Most of them require a Mastery Maneuver in order to invoke their effect... ... ... I think as a baseline requirement that is okay but other options for the invocation should be available. Only because this limits their use a bit.
For instance, spend 1 Mood or spend an Inspiration or perform a Critical Hit.
Outside of that... Everything is looking good!!! =D
/*~Matthew Miller~*\
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Hm. I hear you, and I remember seeing a mechanic like that in your homebrew talent.
I could test it out in a few quick runs sometime in the next couple of days. One thing about loading them onto the mastery maneuvers is that that preserves the rising action of combat. In other words, you start out with relatively simple maneuvers and build up to finishing, awesome, climactic maneuvers.
However, your mechanic does have the advantage of providing increased player control and immediate feedback, which can be two very good things. So I'll run it through and see what shakes out. Feel free to post or email a couple examples of what you envision.
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I'd run the playtest of the rule myself if I had a group. =P
I can definitely understand your point of view, as well. It does really juice up the Mastery Maneuvers and makes them even more dangerous... which is always excited. =) I just like the idea of the Talent becoming a mark of the warrior's personal combat style... so the higher Talent ranks would do as they do now... the only change would be, is that you can burn Mood/Inspiration to invoke those effects.
The idea is extra cool now because of how much more important Mood is... you really have to stop and consider the implications of burning that Mood. Is it really worth the added vulnerability? Its a question ripe with internal strife. ^_^
/*~Matthew Miller~*\
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Sent you two emails with lots of random comments, thoughts, responses as I read the first third of the text. some can be ignored, some is typos, others are for you to think about.
use the second email though. the first was pasted directly from notebook, and is so full of spelling craziness that it reads like a 7-year old from another county wrote it. I typically write at least as good as a 10-year old from an English speaking county!
Let me know if it is too much detail or extraneous info, and I will trim the next post down.
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Thanks, Jason! Great stuff. I am falling asleep, but will get back on this tomorrow. Thanks to everyone else who has sent stuff too!
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I have only done a skim read so far and unfortunately i dont have time to do a full and careful read for about a week. I have spotted a few more typos from my previous mail. I will send them separately.
Overall this is excellent and I am looking forward to running it.
Things that I find odd and other suggestions.
PP 262 and 263 2 character sheets almost identical.
Throwing is not really explained. There is no difference between a pilum and a hat pin. I think a paragraph on throwing would be useful in the combat section and some discrimination in weapon weights. My thought is lighter weapons 1 and heavier 2 and leave it at that. If you threw an axe, would the drawing of a rapier be considered automatic or need an action? My thought is its automatic and this fits wish the swashbuckling feel.
It seems strange a blowgun has no special rules, surely it does no damage but delivers poison or drugs?
In Arrowheart archer's shot should be Qck/d2 so its the same as the base shoot skill. Otherwise an archer with high quick is better off using the base skill.
Low levels of armour make little difference. I think the first step from clothing to the lightest armour should be meaningful. I would suggest some penalty for being unarmoured like there is for being unarmed. My initial thought is the first wound when you are unarmoured is +1 to affects.
I think a table in an annex listing the weapons and which combat styles are appropriate would be useful and potentially stop confusion. It would be good to know which weapons the author considers appropriate for each style. I can imagine somewhere someone wanting to be inappropriate with a dagger (mounted?, Parapet?).
I would have liked to see a spear/polearm style that differs from two handed.
MacLeod mentioned starting mood elsewhere. The solution I suggested was rolling Heart for starting mood after each downtime.
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ironchicken wrote:I would have liked to see a spear/polearm style that differs from two handed. I offered up my Long Arm style to be included... In fact, it can be included and modified if Frank is up to it. I'm not looking for any royalties or anything... perhaps a mention in the credits or something though. =P
/*~Matthew Miller~*\
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I did a medium level read through and now and going back and rereading sections that are significantly new (Troops, Glosses, etc). I did not catch the throwing issue, but found a number of other bits and bobs that should be addressed.
I was sad to see the war of escalation between armor quality and weapon quality be taken out. but it would require significant shepherding throughout the game by the GM to maintain balance between all the players.
On a completely different Note: you can be a Level 5 Chosen One Lich. (if you take Death Lore as your starting Style). I for one welcome our new Lich Overlord Prophet!
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MacLeod wrote:ironchicken wrote:I would have liked to see a spear/polearm style that differs from two handed. I offered up my Long Arm style to be included... In fact, it can be included and modified if Frank is up to it. I'm not looking for any royalties or anything... perhaps a mention in the credits or something though. =P Yes i liked your spear homebrew. I intend to use
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something quick and easy to fix. (Also, is this where you want these types of corrections? Or would you prefer them in an email?)
page 55, second column, start of the third paragraph, "The maximum Wealth :evel is 20"
Also, page 58 under "Organizations" it reads,
"Organizations are easy to neglect. If this is
your first time playing Spellbound Kingdoms, you
might even be better off mastering and applying the
other rules before you tackle observations.
But when you can, do use organizations."
Shouldn't it say "before you tackle organizations."?
Page 64, "There are two races of trolls: “rain” trolls,
sometimes called simply trolls, and the seradynn. Both
species of trolls appear quite similar to humans"
Shouldn't it say "Both races of trolls appear. . ."
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IC and everyone, thanks. I'm processing the forum and email comments as fast and accurately as I can. Thanks so much.
Starting Mood: Can be changed. Rolling Heart for it is interesting. Half Heart is actually maybe even better. The idea with starting a character at 0 Mood is a) to emphasize that the Kingdoms are harsh, oppressive places to live and b) to push people into role playing quickly to build up Mood at the start of a campaign. However, rolling Heart or going with half Heart may have somewhat similar effect, since people will want max.
Level 5 Lich Overlord Prophet: Bring it on! You're never too low-level for a soul rip in the Kingdoms! :) Can't tell if you are concerned this is overpowered or not. I'm looking at it and not seeing too much if any serious overpower. It's an NPC thing, mostly, because of the Corrupted Inspirations. The Heart restriction is pretty severe. And one of the things that I absolutely adore about the system is that 1st-level to 20th-level guys can all challenge each other (not to say the 1st-level guys will dominate, or win more than very rarely, but a few together can challenge a 20th-level, in many if not all situations).
Character sheets being identical: I was wondering about this. It's there because there's zero cost for an additional page in a pdf and because, being at the end, I don't have to worry about re-pagination in the dead-tree version if I take one or the other out. So, I threw both in. Which do you guys like better? Personally I love the achievements but I'm wary of pushing anyone's "wtf you're writing WOW as a tabletop rpg" button.
Throwing: The difference between a pilum and a hat pin is the pilum's special ability to damage a shield. Other than that, yeah, it's up to the GM and the group. I think I will have to try to squeeze in a paragraph somewhere that says something along the lines of, "The GM and the group must be the final arbiters of what weapons are appropriate for what styles. If you and your group can envision a horseman wielding a spiked chain, then enjoy it! And if you can't, then enjoy that too. Each campaign's tone and flavor should be pitched to suit its participants." Because, yeah, I agree, dagger+mounted would be tossed out in my campaign. At the same time, I don't want to get too detailed at all about weapons. The combat game is mostly about "style matters," and I want people to feel free to use whatever weapons suit their vision for their character.
Arrowheart archer's shot: Yep, sometimes it's much better to use a basic attack, not just for archers. But the advantage of Archer's Shot over the basic attack is that you can follow it up with a Trick Shot, Double Shot, or Mighty Pull the next round.
Mac's Longarm style: I will take a look again at it. Definitely could be added. And Mac, I'll give you credit, as long as I don't forget the playtester/proofreader/etc. credits like I did in the version that's up on the site now! :)
One other thing that I haven't seen anyone bring up yet (I have several unread emails still in the queue, so it might be there) is the damage from mass combat troops. Somehow I used my old Troops chapter in this version. The damage went up when units were allowed to use Spirit to soak Health damage; otherwise battles are a little longer than I think most people prefer. So the real damages are going to be a change that you'll see in this weekend's (? hopefully) final version.
Edit: Matt (Mac), I'm sending you an email about the Longarm style.
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Stephen, thanks! Just fixed 'em!
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Frank,
I am all for Level 5 Overlord Lich Prophets!
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khelek wrote:I was sad to see the war of escalation between armor quality and weapon quality be taken out. but it would require significant shepherding throughout the game by the GM to maintain balance between all the players. Yes, I liked this rule. from the other discussion I can understand why it was taken out. Perhaps it could return as an optional rule. It would also resolve the throwing issue, for me at least. Frank wrote:One other thing that I haven't seen anyone bring up yet (I have several unread emails still in the queue, so it might be there) is the damage from mass combat troops. Somehow I used my old Troops chapter in this version. The damage went up when units were allowed to use Spirit to soak Health damage; otherwise battles are a little longer than I think most people prefer. So the real damages are going to be a change that you'll see in this weekend's (? hopefully) final version. Not read that bit yet ;) Frank wrote:Arrowheart archer's shot: Yep, sometimes it's much better to use a basic attack, not just for archers. But the advantage of Archer's Shot over the basic attack is that you can follow it up with a Trick Shot, Double Shot, or Mighty Pull the next round. The thing that got me was an untrained high quickness archer was more accurate than a master archer in a trained stance. It just felt wrong for such a small change of giving archer's shot the same ATT/DEF of shoot/throw. Frank wrote:Character sheets being identical: I was wondering about this. It's there because there's zero cost for an additional page in a pdf and because, being at the end, I don't have to worry about re-pagination in the dead-tree version if I take one or the other out. So, I threw both in. Which do you guys like better? Personally I love the achievements but I'm wary of pushing anyone's "wtf you're writing WOW as a tabletop rpg" button. I prefer the non achievements one. Campaigns should develop their own achievements and not have a default list.
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Oh I found another question/confusion.
Page 139 Wheel locks... Last sentence: Masterpieces do 1 extra point of damage to armour of quality 5 or less....
What about masterpiece bows, do they too? In other words should the above not be under its own heading of masterpiece weapons or is it only for black powder?
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Another thing I do not understand. Page 35....
For a critical hit you must roll over half your die and your opponent a 1.
For a wild surge you must roll a 1
For a crisis surge, a wild surge must critical hit.
But a wild surge cannot critical hit because it must have rolled a 1. Have I missed something?
I can only assume this is back to the previous version where the chance of crisis surges went up with the number of spellbound present. Then it was possible to crisis surge on a 3 (creating a d6 crisis) or even 5 (d8 crisis). It also seems that the text on page 35 that this is still the case because "because high spells affect large areas there is a significant chance of a crisis". However, this is not true because its now always a 1.
Certainly this needs some clarification.
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The what if a fight breaks out is missing from social scenes...
This was the old text and i think its an important rule.
Just as war is an extension of politics, swordplay is an extension of wordplay. Sometimes a conversation becomes a fight. This is one of the hazards of a social scene. If you are using a script, the combat scene that blows up out of a social scene is not considered part of the normal scene order. After it is resolved, continue on with the scene order as usual. You cannot start a fight at a royal ball without consequences. Whoever escalates a social scene into a physical conflict takes 8 damage to an appropriate reputation (or gains 8 to a negative reputation) and takes 3 mood damage from the stress.
Any reason it was taken out?
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Relatively minor:
* Savage Combat Style
Notes say "Weapon required for Fury Strike and Berserk Strike."
I can only see "Fury Strike" in the style, no sign of "Berserk Strike"
* Warrior Level Table, Lvl 4, Cumulative Fighting Styles Column
List says: "1m, 1n" when I am pretty sure it should say: "1m, 1a, 1n"
Question:
What is your view on what an "average man on the street"'s stats are:
eg. Heart 0-2, other Stats 4 - 6 (maybe 4, 5, 5, 6, 6?
Still reading, digesting, and enjoying :)
Drew
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ironchicken wrote:But a wild surge cannot critical hit because it must have rolled a 1. Have I missed something? 1. The Wizard rolls a one = Wild Surge 2. The GM rolls the SAME magic die that the wizard rolled (no bonus dice) against each target (all Spellbound +1 Random Victim), each target gets a separate attack from the surge 3. (here it is a little fuzzy) If any (ANY!) of the victims roll a 1 and the Surge rolls on the upper half of its range (this is the Critical attack roll) then it becomes a crisis surge. So: if there are 3 spellbound and 1 random victim, and just one of them gets critically hit, the Crisis Surge hits everybody! Consequence: The nobility outlaws magic! :) I think the text is pretty clear, except for stating plainly that if any of the victims messes up their defense it goes crisis. Question: Can you take the Hit? and not roll your defense? that way taking the Surge Damage but not causing a crisis? Does the Language of the Stars Spell Glow affect the Crisis Surge roll... from my reading it does not.
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