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MacLeod's Homebrewed Styles Options
khelek
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:58:27 AM
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Quote:
A quick, messy version of One-Thousand Thunderclaps...


Wow... a ton of Master moves. 6!

some of my comments may be out of place based on the new combat styles work. but here it goes:

The linear progression on power through the form says go as quickly to the big stuff as possible. The low level maneuvers don't really do anything compared to the much more powerful upper-mid and high level moves. To me this is a detriment. there is not much reason to move around this style. you get as quickly as you can to a non-rebalancing move that is strong then when you can knowck the ou tof the fight you move a rebalancing move.

I think that the Jolt Counter is a cheap move. you pick someone who may not even be fighting you and get a free d12 hit? maybe rewording is in order since I assume you mean some one who is actually attacking you... but what does that mean. if a wizard is preparing a spell do you get to hit them for 5?

lots of gimmicks here, it pushes, gives you mood back, knocks people out for capturing them, reduces damage, moves you, and gives you some counter attacks.

I think you need to focus on two of these and build a more tight system.

The three moves coming out of the base (100-steps, haymaker, and reaping) seem almost underpowered for the rest of the style when compared with your other master moves. If all the master moves are rebalanced then maybe they will come in line.

Of course all of of this is circumstantial based on the new revamped styles coming out. old styles had form 0 - 3 master moves. what will the new ones have? if it is the same then you have to think about the fact that 1/2 of the moves here are for masters only. also all apprentices will be the same (Bolt Jab, Guard Up, Rolling waves, and 1-2) with no variation possible.
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 12:54:57 PM
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khelek wrote:
Wow... a ton of Master moves. 6!
Yeah, I sort of envisioned the Style really showing its versatility for Masters.
As a side note, a lot of these Maneuvers are based on the anime Hajime no Ippo. =P

Quote:
The linear progression on power through the form says go as quickly to the big stuff as possible. The low level maneuvers don't really do anything compared to the much more powerful upper-mid and high level moves. To me this is a detriment. there is not much reason to move around this style. you get as quickly as you can to a non-rebalancing move that is strong then when you can knock the out of the fight you move a rebalancing move.
Yeah, a jab is only meant to open up an opportunity for a string of more powerful and meaningful punches.
The column containing Lightning Straight is very versatile though... 5 Maneuvers all with different purposes.

Quote:
I think that the Jolt Counter is a cheap move. you pick someone who may not even be fighting you and get a free d12 hit? maybe rewording is in order since I assume you mean some one who is actually attacking you... but what does that mean. if a wizard is preparing a spell do you get to hit them for 5?
OTTC is meant to be an overwhelmingly powerful style against another physical combatant. This means that while Jolt Counter can be very powerful (D12/D10 and 5 damage) it won't be so great in a chaotic melee. It fits a particular vision I have but I can see it being avoided in big melees.

Quote:
lots of gimmicks here, it pushes, gives you mood back, knocks people out for capturing them, reduces damage, moves you, and gives you some counter attacks.
I think you need to focus on two of these and build a more tight system.
Part of it is that I am trying to capture what I think actual boxing would be like if applied as a self-defense system... plus some goofy stuff for fun. I do think I need to make it a little more interesting though. I mainly wanted to pull out some effects never seen before (which I achieved in a few ways).

Quote:
The three moves coming out of the base (100-steps, haymaker, and reaping) seem almost underpowered for the rest of the style when compared with your other master moves. If all the master moves are rebalanced then maybe they will come in line.
I thought OHS was pretty good for a tier 2 Maneuver; 3 damage at the risk of possibly allowing the opponent to crit you.
And reaping can hit any number of opponents in your area which means the overall damage dealt could be massive... plus, if you are surrounded, you can push a lot of opponents away instead of hurting them to create some breathing room.
I also think that Haymaker is pretty excellent... a tier 1 Maneuver that guarantees heavy damage, both to your opponent and yourself.

Quote:
Of course all of of this is circumstantial based on the new revamped styles coming out. old styles had form 0 - 3 master moves. what will the new ones have? if it is the same then you have to think about the fact that 1/2 of the moves here are for masters only. also all apprentices will be the same (Bolt Jab, Guard Up, Rolling waves, and 1-2) with no variation possible.
I hadn't thought about Apprentices. =/

I'll look into modifying the layout to see what I can do about that. I'm also thinking about sticking a Maneuver between Lightning Straight and Split the Wave... for a total of 14 Maneuvers, six of which are Masters.

I could make OHS and RtS 3rd tier Maneuvers and not Masters... then... Haymaker would be the only way to turn those two into 2nd tier but at the cost of the fact that Haymaker is a risky gambit anyways.

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:32:41 PM
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blah, so I just went and modified the layout and edited the original post.
I might have to return to OTTC when I get some better ideas. =P

However, I am thinking about an unarmed martial arts style that combines magic... Perhaps called Spell Arm or Spelljutsu or something cool like that. =P

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
khelek
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:58:27 PM
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You might want to have some element that accounts for the fact that you "forgot" to bring a knife to the knife fight.

Meaning that your defenses are going to be bad. Without a sword or something else to stop blows your only recourse is to get out of the way. giving ground and advantage.

the difference between someone with boxing training and no training is huge. but even a moron with a stick can be difficult for a trained pugilist.
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:26:49 PM
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For real... Even an athletic person with no training getting punched by a heavyweight boxer's bare-fist is going to result in a concussion if the ol' boy is throwing a mean straight with his primary arm. =) Hell, it might even kill an unprepared person simply by snapping his neck! Or for a body blow, busting a rib and forcing that bone to stab through his lungs or worse.
Maybe I'm weird but the sheer power and ability of the human body is amazing to me. =D

The last bit is what I was referring to a far as a Self-Defense system is concerned. OTTC still doesn't use feet or knees for striking but it is designed to be capable of competing against a well-armed and armored individual. Its all about evoking internal energy and knowing where to be when an opponent is striking with a weapon that can't be turned away safely with a forearm or has too much reach for the fighter to strike his arm, etc... In my mind, it adopts all of the technique and footwork required by an out-boxer with the sheer power and brute force-styled defense of an in-boxer. Its definitely not realistic because practitioners would have to be incredibly proficient to avoid a maiming... but this is a game we are talking about after all. =P

On the other hand... the style doesn't get a D8 for Defense unless the fighter is sacrificing offense for defense.

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
YcoreRixle
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:10:38 PM
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You know, I played a boxer once in a campaign. He was a street brawler awol from the royal army, and every adventure began with the PC who was still in the army coming to get my character from his hovel in the slums so they could go on whatever mission needed doing. Always reminded me of the A-Team busting Murdoch out of the psych hospital at the start of every episode. Anyway, this style made me think of my old PC. Thanks!

Hm, so Legacy automatically defeats the opponent if the d12 defense roll is successful? Does that work against more than one opponent in a round - like against everyone who rolls against you and misses? That strikes me as too powerful.

I like the Thunderous Comeback idea. I'd probably make it a Mastery (3 Mood is a lot) and eliminate the Heart die substitution (it's got incentive enough to be used as is, and the Heart die any time in the combat would be a bit of bookkeeping that could snowball with other bits into an unpleasant snowball of bookkeeping).

I like everything about Haymaker. Placement, off/def trade, damage. Spot on.

Says "unarmed" under the Requirements section. Do you also have to be unarmored, or can you box in armor? Perhaps a limit to the armor based on minimum strength or some such?
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:01:48 PM
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As a side note to all of this... I starting working on my magical martial artist style (tentatively titled Sigiljutsu)... weird stuff. There is so many directions that this could go. ^_^

YcoreRixle wrote:
You know, I played a boxer once in a campaign. He was a street brawler awol from the royal army, and every adventure began with the PC who was still in the army coming to get my character from his hovel in the slums so they could go on whatever mission needed doing. Always reminded me of the A-Team busting Murdoch out of the psych hospital at the start of every episode. Anyway, this style made me think of my old PC. Thanks!
Awesome. =D I've always wanted to play a retired boxer in a game where I could make use of his skill whilst adventuring and saving the day so I envy you. =P

Quote:
Hm, so Legacy automatically defeats the opponent if the d12 defense roll is successful? Does that work against more than one opponent in a round - like against everyone who rolls against you and misses? That strikes me as too powerful.
Only one opponent. And, it can only be used once per battle since to get to it you first need to use Thunderous Comeback. Essentially with an Inspiration you have one opponent defeated. That said, you can see Legacy coming a mile away. The moment Iron Guard is used, opponents may end up targeting the OTTC-user in hopes of killing him or rebalancing him in case he is going for a TC-to-L setup. :) Plus, after a TC... the GM can have important NPCs turn their attention elsewhere whilst minions take the fall.

Quote:
I like the Thunderous Comeback idea. I'd probably make it a Mastery (3 Mood is a lot) and eliminate the Heart die substitution (it's got incentive enough to be used as is, and the Heart die any time in the combat would be a bit of bookkeeping that could snowball with other bits into an unpleasant snowball of bookkeeping).
Hm... wait a second... Are you interpreting the text to mean that for the whole battle one die gets replaced by Heart?
I ask because I was confused by what you had said... then I read the text of the Maneuver again... and thought, "Oh, hey... Yeah. That would be bad."
It is suppose to mean that you get to replace a single dice roll just one time with your Heart die. So if you have a pivotal Maneuver coming up that has a crappy die but your Heart is better, you can replace it just that one time after using TC. So it could be tracked by a little Heart-shaped token. O_O

Quote:
I like everything about Haymaker. Placement, off/def trade, damage. Spot on.
Yeah, I thought it was neat. ^_^ Its a risky Maneuver but cautious players can still avoid it while still successfully utilizing the style.

Quote:
Says "unarmed" under the Requirements section. Do you also have to be unarmored, or can you box in armor? Perhaps a limit to the armor based on minimum strength or some such?
Ah, yeah. I should put unarmored in there. I'm pretty sure any unarmed style would perform poorly when the body is weighed down. Well, at least... nothing better than a leather getup or something.

Anyways... I know the rest of the style isn't exactly great or anything... it needs work. I feel like maybe Reaping the Sound doesn't fit but it looks really cool in my head... And I don't know if letting the player choose between two effects for Rolling Waves (Dempsey Roll!) and Iron Guard is too overpowered. I also think that only having two Balance Maneuvers is a little limiting... but I don't see folks spending much time with either Bolt Jab or Guard Up anyways... they are only there as bridges to the good stuff.

Additionally, I was thinking of switching the positions of Rolling Waves and Iron Guard with each other.

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
grufflehead
Posted: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:09:14 PM
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Hi folks

I've just bought SK after reading good things about it on rpg.net. Haven't got all the way through yet, but I found my way here. Very impressed with MacLeod's own schools, so started messing about with Inkscape and came up with this:



Quick and (very) dirty as I'm no graphic designer and I'm figuring out Inkscape as I go, but thought you might enjoy it. Needs tidying up but I've got it as a pdf if anyone wants to actually use it/tidy it up.
MacLeod
Posted: Sunday, February 20, 2011 7:59:03 PM
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That's awesome! =D

Two things...

1) Not really in love with the shade that the Maneuver font is in
2) I feel like maybe it could be squished a little to make it less tall

That said, this is really awesome and way better than anything I could have ever hoped to accomplish. =P Maybe folks would take my creations more seriously if they took on an awesome look like this! Thanks grufflehead!

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
grufflehead
Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 5:48:16 AM
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Yeah, I was having to guess at fonts and colours I'm afraid. I just exported a single page from the Combat Primer, imported into Inkscape and started from there, but in doing so I lost all the text for some reason so had to do all that from scratch. I've got Acrobat Pro at work - if I get a bit of time, I'll see if it's easier to modify a sheet in that instead.
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