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Initial play reactions Options
MadLordOfMilk
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:50:41 PM
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After running a ridiculous D&D 4e game last night (we had 9 people show up, as in every single person who was told about it, so poor Jules got stuck running a one-shot for 8 players. Eugh.), we ran a game of SK. We had 5 players plus the GM, to put things into perspective. For Mr Brunner, as you know these people, it was: Me (GM), IF, SB, Sven, Peter E, and my girlfriend (who you haven't met).

1. Character creation is a snap. I walked Sven through making a character, and once he'd done it it made complete sense to him. Him and I were able to then each help one person make a character. Creating a character, even for people having never done it before, took only maybe 5-10mins.

2. Character creation was awesome, everyone really liked it. It really makes you think about who your character is rather than mechanical effects. Having to come up with your history, inspirations, etc. makes you have a grounded idea of who you are. This especially helped when my girlfriend asked people for a rough description of their characters to draw them as the night went on :) Everyone had a rough idea of what their character looked like and what sort of person they were, which doesn't always happen with other RPGs.

3. AFAIK, the PDF doesn't say anywhere how you level up. Trying to extrapolate from what was written, it seems like at some point the DM goes "ok, you all gain a level" or something; however, it wasn't really explained. Additionally, you invest money to increase your wealth level, but there aren't really guidelines as far as how much money people would get, mostly caused by not really NEEDING a gold total. It seems like this is meant to be left open-ended, though.

4. We weren't sure if familiars interfered with their master or not; see Sven's thread posted for discussion on that.

5. Regarding Five Seasons' "Sere Pressure Point" (what's the word for those again? maneuvers? I forgot), used on say a Battlecraft spellcaster. One can knock out the row that has all of their rebalance abilities. If the player then had to rebalance, would he be knocked out of his combat style by the rebalance attack, given nowhere to go on the style sheet?

6. One concern is you can end up "getting ganked" in combat. In other words, you could suddenly have everyone stack up on you, whereas other times nobody's attacking you. This was more of a concern in our PvP demo combat though, and not so much in actual play (though there was only one short combat in-game). To explain the PvP thing, beforehand I ran a quick 3-4 round free-for-all tavern brawl just so people could get a glimpse of the combat system and get used to how it works.

7. How does one "win" a chase scene, without someone getting grabbed? IE, when you're trying to run from the city guards. I ended up finding spots to say, "ok, you were far ahead and you chose to slip into an alleyway, so you've managed to escape" and took that player off the chase list. Option B was have everyone in 1-2 rank with the guards in "Far Behind" or something. I think the roleplay method was the intent, though.

8. Regarding chase scenes: should they be ran with everyone effectively in "the same area" with the area rotating every round (IE you start in an alleyway, then next round you're breaking into the bazaar, then you're exiting the bazaar in the next round, etc) or are the different "tiers" (1-5 and Far Behind) supposed to have their own separate zones?

9. Can you catch up from Far Behind, or does that correllate to "out of the picture now"? I'm not looking for a hard set rule, just a general guideline.

10. Social encounters were fun. For stuff with us it was always just a quick one-or-two opposed rolls and then going back to RPing, but it made sense and gave the players a choice without totally abstracting it. It really prevents people from locking up the conversation due to a difference of opinion (IE kids pretending to play cops and robbers and they get stuck at "i hit you!" "nuh uh! you missed!" "no, i hit you!" "no, i dodged it!" arguments. SK social encounter rules prevent that sort of issue.)

11. For the Savage combat style: it says, "No shield, weapon for Fury Strike, Rampage." I wasn't sure if that meant "no shield & no weapon allowed if you use fury strike or rampage" or "you can't use a shield, and you need a weapon for fury strike and rampage" or what. My assumption was the latter.

Overall, receptions were excellent. Everyone really liked the system! I explained the idea behind "scene order play" and it basically was ran as the characters picking what they want to do and directing the flow of events until I jumped in as GM whenever something happened, a dispute needed to be settled, opposed rolls needed to be made, or whatever. It was very player-driven instead of GM-driven. At many points it almost felt like I didn't need to be there as the GM as the players were able to handle it themselves (until I came in later with something, of course). GMing with player-driven play was quite passive and mostly just required me throwing wrenches in the system.

P.S. Sam had to leave partway through, so he played over skype using video chat for a big chunk of it. It worked pretty flawlessly without much of a hitch.
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:11:35 PM
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MadLordOfMilk wrote:
After running a ridiculous D&D 4e game last night (we had 9 people show up, as in every single person who was told about it, so poor Jules got stuck running a one-shot for 8 players. Eugh.)

Wow! I've never even GMed more than 4 people at one time, that is crazy!

Quote:
3. AFAIK, the PDF doesn't say anywhere how you level up. Trying to extrapolate from what was written, it seems like at some point the DM goes "ok, you all gain a level" or something; however, it wasn't really explained.

What I gather from the Experience section of the Miscellaneous Chapter is that the GM gives everyone who was present in more than half of the session's scenes either 1 history point or a Level. You cannot give a character the history point reward twice in a row... so that means, each character levels up at least once every other session.
I think I'll end up just alternating between the options in my own campaigns.

Quote:
5. Regarding Five Seasons' "Sere Pressure Point" (what's the word for those again? maneuvers? I forgot), used on say a Battlecraft spellcaster. One can knock out the row that has all of their rebalance abilities. If the player then had to rebalance, would he be knocked out of his combat style by the rebalance attack, given nowhere to go on the style sheet?

That sounds troublesome!
The guy would have to perform one the actions listed on the bottom right of the combat style sheet... Which means he can perform a Trick to change styles.

Quote:
11. For the Savage combat style: it says, "No shield, weapon for Fury Strike, Rampage." I wasn't sure if that meant "no shield & no weapon allowed if you use fury strike or rampage" or "you can't use a shield, and you need a weapon for fury strike and rampage" or what. My assumption was the latter.

I'm pretty sure you are right. Fury Strike and Rampage require a weapon while the other Savage maneuvers do not.

Quote:
Overall, receptions were excellent. Everyone really liked the system!

That is awesome to hear... Do you think the session convinced anyone to make a purchase? Its always great to expand the community. =D

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
MadLordOfMilk
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:21:36 PM
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Yeah, I've had to run big D&D games like that before (only once or twice) and it's not fun. I feel bad for the DM, it was his first time DMing anything and he got stuck with a huge group of unfocused players haha. The social experience was fun, but the large number of players caused a lot of downtime from person-to-person. Thankfully, the SK group was more focused.

Absolutely. Sven was already planning on buying a copy, but that's just sealing the deal. SB is waiting for a print copy to come out, but he certainly likes the system (he just doesn't like spending money for PDFs). Others are probably going to get it too :)

Oh! I forgot to mention, we simply could NOT get enough of SK. We ended up playing from midnight-ish until about 5am when everyone was ready to pass out. We were only planning on running a quick 1-2hr demo type game, and we were instantly hooked.

My only "gripe" with SK is that if you wanted to it'd probably be tougher to run a hack-'n-slash sort of campaign where you crawl in a dungeon, kick down every door and beat everything up, but SK isn't really the system for it. Even then, I'm sure after some house-ruling (mostly changing how bad taking body damage is) you could still make it work just fine :)
sven?
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:27:04 PM
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Cataclysm Rays d10/d4/d4/d2 for 2 damage each seems to lend itself well to hack-and-slashing ;)

As the player who used the magic system, I have to say that it works really well. Close spells are mostly just role-played, what is doable being worked out between player and GM. The combat skills are very nifty, and the high spells look absolutely epic.

Wild surges probably hurt, though. It wasn't really a problem in our run through, but I'm sure that there will be times when things won't go so well.
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:33:20 PM
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I'm friggin' jealous. I use to have experiences like that back in high school... having so much fun that we just cannot stop playing. =)

I agree with your hack 'n' slash sentiments. If houseruled correctly, it could be a ton of fun played that way.

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
MadLordOfMilk
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:49:50 PM
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Hmm... maybe at some point, if I'm so driven, I'll come up with some sort of optional rules and post them here to allow hack 'n slashing. For now, though, it doesn't seem necessary; "regular" SK play should keep me occupied enough.

I realized just now, I hadn't actually posted WHAT we did in-game. Basically, not having enough time to read specifics of the setting but getting the general idea of what the kingdoms are like, we ran our adventure "somewhere in the kingdoms" in a "middle-eastern"-themed city much like Agrabah from Aladdin, crossed with SK. It just seemed like a cool idea at the time. And yes, they all met at a tavern.

Violet, the party rogue was at the tavern with her brother, Sven (creative naming, sven :P). One of her "connections" whispered to her, "the King's guards are coming. You should probably get out of here". As a common thief, she definitely wanted to get out of there. Sven, being a magic user and spellbound and thus also on the run from the nobility, also had good reason to leave.

Tarko, an islander Savage who is clearly not from around here, had overheard this warning. He's not a fan of the local authority, and decided to exit at the same time.

Lady Astor, a local noble who happened to be in the tavern with them, was intrigued by seeing these three leave all at the same time. What's with this outsider and two shady-ish characters exiting the tavern out the back all at once, she thought? So she decided to follow.

Thus, the party ended up meeting up with each other in a back alley. "Any enemy of the King's Guards is a friend of mine," Sven had announced to the islander. The noble was then confronted. "What are you doing here? We don't like your type." Unfortunately, some cooperation was required because she (being a noble) had strong connections with the local authority and could draw them to there.

While in the alley, Davan (a chosen one whose race I can't recall) was walking by and took a double-take at them. This quickly drew the attention of the siblings, used to being watch. "Who are you?" they asked. "Why are you here?"

Ultimately, the "party" (if you could call them that) ended up "sandboxing" around the city. There was a chase scene where they were chased by the local guards and a mage who'd detected the spellbound Sven nearby and was able to track down his hideout. At one point, Violet had been kidnapped and Sven, having no idea of who else to turn to, had to enlist the aid of his new acquaintances to help recover her from Kruthik, a leader of a gang of thieves. Social encounters happened often, though mostly for inter-party conflict; there was a lot of tension between these characters. They weren't exactly best buddies after all.

We pretty much did a whole lot of winging it, and had fun all the while :)
MacLeod
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:58:59 PM
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All of this was done basically on the fly?
Man, I haven't had a campaign like that since high school...

MadLordOfMilk wrote:
Hmm... maybe at some point, if I'm so driven, I'll come up with some sort of optional rules and post them here to allow hack 'n slashing. For now, though, it doesn't seem necessary; "regular" SK play should keep me occupied enough.

Agreed. I've got some alternate rules for cinematic SKing brewing in the ol' noggin' as well.

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
MadLordOfMilk
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:51:46 PM
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Yep! Completely on the fly. We occasionally took a break to get food/drinks/whatever of course. The scene order system allows things to keep happening because someone's always got an idea for what's happening next based on their character, it seems.
YcoreRixle
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:26:21 PM
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Awesome! Thanks for the great game report. I'm super psyched about the scene order play success. A lot of groups haven't glommed on to it; very cool that it came so naturally!

About experience: Mac is right, leveling up should occur once every two sessions at slowest. The leveling pace is intended to be as brisk as the scene pace! It's on page 10.10.

About Five Seasons knocking out all re-balancing maneuvers: Yep! You can totally knock someone out of a style if all of their maneuvers fall in that same row. Remember that they can use a trick, rolling their strength against yours, to remove the pressure point block/damage and once again regain access to their style. Of course, one advantage of knowing more than one style is that you could just switch instead of (possibly) wasting time rolling strength checks.

Familiars: I'll discuss in Sven's thread (might not get a chance right now) but even though they are spellbound, they don't interfere. That's not clear in the book; sorry. It's supposed to be that they are apprentices as per the Master and Apprentice talent (but you don't need to take that talent; you get the familiar as an apprentice for free with the familiar class ability).

Getting ganked: You can get ganged up on, it's true. Guardsman and Parapet Defense (Shelter maneuver) and similar things can come in handy here to help your allies out. Feel free to tinker with house rules that say things like "You get a Strength bonus die with your attack die if no one attacks you this round." That adds an incentive for opponents to not leave someone unattacked. However, in play that was just complicated and always forgotten. And we never missed it in play, so it's not in there (could be added as a talent if you like).

Winning a chase scene should definitely be made clearer. Sorry about that. It's on the list now! The winning conditions are completely up to the GM and the group. That's one of the things I love about it: the GM can tailor the winning conditions to the players. If they're into the chase scene, the GM can stretch it a bit. If they're not, make it a short chase. What I have done a lot is this: start the "chasers" at long range, and the fugitive in the first rank. Then there are a set number of environments or rounds: 3 to 5, usually. For example, if the fugitive is still in the lead by the time the chase has moved through 3 to 5 different rooms, then he leaps onto the zepplin that is waiting for him, or he disappears through a door that is imperviously locked behind him, or some such exit. Another way to do it is just watch the players' reactions, and when the group has had two good rounds, then foreshadow an exit: he's about to get away! Or, You're about to get away! Then do one or two rounds more, and if the ones in the lead haven't been grabbed, they get away.

As far as "tiers" in chase scenes, I usually have everyone in the same area. They move on, no matter what. They just fall behind or get closer. It's usually not fun to be stuck in the same Slaughterhouse Sluice-pool or Barracks Dump-cellar for three rounds in a row. But if it is, then you can spread the PCs out. The intent, though, was that everyone stays in the same area, and advances together no matter what - just getting closer or farther. You can definitely catch up from Long Range! Cutting the sequencing off at Long Range is essentially the game design idea called "catch up," actually (Matt Forbeck just gave a nice lecture about it at a seminar I went to today!). What it means is that everyone should have a shot, even if it's remote, to catch up at the end. That keeps things interesting for them. So, by saying that no one can fall more than 5 range increments behind (once you're in Long Range you can't get any worse), we're capping how far out of the picture you can get. So as the chase narrows down, two "Push Its" accompanied by two consecutive failures from the fugitive can turn things around in a hurry.

Assumption about Savage is right. Most of it is unarmed, you can never use a shield, but you need a weapon for Fury Strike or Rampage. I should make that clearer. Thanks!

Awesome that social encounters were so fun! I have Rudolph lined up to go at the Gen Con game tomorrow. Had it ready for the first games too, but play hasn't led there. We'll see!

Thanks for the report!



MadLordOfMilk
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:37:13 PM
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YcoreRixle wrote:
About experience: Mac is right, leveling up should occur once every two sessions at slowest. The leveling pace is intended to be as brisk as the scene pace! It's on page 10.10.
Ahh, now I see it! My inclination was to check the "Classes and Advancement" section given that key word of "advancement" rather than Misc Rules; it's kind of buried in the book, and I was trying to follow the advice of taking the rules one chunk at a time to get used to them, so the Misc Rules section was/is pretty much bottom of the priority ladder for me.
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