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Ranged Weapons inconsistencies Options
Carlin
Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:21:22 PM
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Joined: 11/15/2011
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Hello everybody. First time poster here.

I've read through the book a few times, but haven't had the chance to play it yet. Loving everything so far, this game is a breath of fresh air among all the fantasy RPGs out there, especially the styles system.

But there's something bothering me. I started fiddling with the gear tables. I wanted to see if I could created "compound items" (say, a masterwork armor, that also has noble's house engravings, serving as a social item) and still keep it balanced in game therms. So I started to reverse engineer gear creating rules.

So far, so good. Worked my way through armor and melee weapons. But ranged weapons don't seem to follow a regular progression. Especially some bows, crossbows and fireweapons.

1) Crossbows are really underpowered. Requiring 2 actions to load seems like a disadvantage that hasn't been compensated.

2) Longbow's quality is also underpowered. Requiring a greater Wealth Level and Min Str than the Kitaarsa Short bow, it's quality should be around 9

3) I figured a scaling for most ranged weapons and firearms, but the masterpiece wheel lock caliver simply doesn't follow it, being slightly overpowered.

4) There's no gloss for the masterpiece bow. It does scale as a "+1 dmg vs armor of Q<5" tho

I could be wrong, of course. But after figuring systems that worked so well for armor and melee weapons, I thought I had gotten the hang of it... Well, I'd like to hear what you guys had to say about it.
khelek
Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:36:16 PM
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You got me. I am interested in your methods low for when I am producing new stuff, especially for social bonuses as my players tend to make "things."
Carlin
Posted: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:05:22 AM
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Ok, here's the system.

First of all, you start with a base item. Usually the worst from the table you are working on. Then, alter it's statistics following some rules, til you get what you want.

ARMOR CRAFTING

BASE ITEM: Studded leather armor; hamata (Q: 2 mStr: 4 WL: 2)

BASIC MODIFICATIONS
- + xQ = increase (x+1)WL
- WL and mStr can be exchanged on a 1:1 basis
- for basic, mundane items, Q can't exceed mStr+1
- Ignore Q / mStr restriction (if you want to create an item with great quality, but light): increase mStr by 2 (may be compensated by WL, as above) (Silkmetal hauberk)
obs.: Items with SPECIAL MODIFICATIONS don't follow Q/mStr restriction, and so don't need to "buy" this last modification

SPECIAL MODIFICATIONS
- d12 bonus skill dice (make it very specific) (cave boat mail): +2WL (divided among mStr, if you want)
- Quality Resistant (x): Decrease armor's Q by x (or increase WL by x, it's the same)
- Elemental Resistant (-1 dmg): Decrease armor's Q by 3
- Can be used as Social Item (Q = WL): Increase WL by 2

also, Bracers seem to use it's own BASE ITEM (Q: 1 mStr: 2 WL: 1), and the only "improved version" given are House Vambraces. (social item mod)

Apparently, shields follow the same rules and BASE ITEM as armor, just increase mStr by 1

Fang Ropes are tricky to stat. They offer a great cost/benefit as a social item, balanced by a class restriction
Silkmetal tunics are the exception to all these rules. They would be balanced by WL6. Maybe its increased WL is justified by its rare material (silkmetal) making it the best mStr3 armor around.

MELEE WEAPON CRAFTING

BASE ITEM: Club (Q: 1 mStr: 4 WL: 1)

BASIC MODIFICATIONS
- +1Q = +1WL
- WL:mStr = 1:2 basis
- Q can't exceed mStr+1 (to ignore this restriction, increase mStr by 1; as usual, SPECIAL items don't follow this restriction)

SPECIAL MODIFICATIONS
- +1 Die Size vs Enemy = +1WL
- +1dmg (vs Qx or less) = +(x/2)WL = +xmStr
- adds poison to up to 3 attacks = +1mStr
- Can be used as Social Item = +3WL
- Deals 1dmg to armorQ on a crit = +1WL
- +1DieSize on trip attacks = +1mStr+1WL (mQuick 6, damn!)

SPELLBOUND MODIFICATIONS (these seem to be really cheap, but being spellbound can be a big burden for any item and it's bearer)

- share ally's inspiration = +1mStr
- +2dmg vs specific kind of inspiration = +1mStr
- d6 bonus Magic Defense (1/round) = +1WL

Exceptions are:
- Mounted lance pays +1mStr and +1WL for no reason, also, it's very restrictive as a mounted weapon only. I wouldn't try to "correct" this tho. It makes sense to be awkward to use it as a regular weapon if not mounted. Its increased mStr could also reflect it's need to be used with one arm only. What I would do, is give it some other benefits when being used mounted, to balance it out. Maybe adding "trip" or "rebalance" to cahrge-like attacks on mounted style.
- engineer's chain blade and petrified head's benefits are either too complex or too specific. So I didn't stat these benefits costs. Use these items as base if you want something equally complex.
- Coursmith weapons and Jakattan Machete are at +1WL for no mechanical reasons. Could be justified by considering these as either noble-related(coursmith) and of rare/peculiar procedence (this thing came all the way from Jakatta!)
- Syrbizond tulwar is at +1mStr for no mechanical reason either. Can't explain this, tho.
- Roofsword's benefit comes for free! also, it gains -1mStr! WTF HAX!

RANGED WEAPONS CRAFTING

BASE: Blowgun (Q: 1 mStr: 2 WL: 1, I'm assuming that all weapons have infinite ammo, including "throwing" for now)

BASIC MODIFICATIONS
- +1Q = +1WL
- WL:mStr = 1:1
- Q can't exceed mStr+1 (to ignore this restriction, increase mStr by 1; as usual, SPECIAL items don't follow this restriction)

SPECIAL MODIFICATIONS
- +1dmg (vs Qx or less) = +xWL = -xQ
- defender must roll dQuick vs Attack result, or rebalance = +1WL, +1trick to reload
- can use special ammunition = +3WL
- 3Q damage to shield on hit, shield is unusable until angon is removed = +2WL

SPECIAL WEAPON KINDS
- Crossbow = 1 or 2 trick recharge. this is not compensate on the rules. I house rule crossbows a bonus of +2Q
- Javelin, Angon (it's advantage is style-specific, as the "Javelin throw" maneuveur deals 2 damage, pretty hardcore if you ask me!) = not ammunition +1mStr
- Matchlock fireweapon = gains thundering, also, fireweapons damage is improved in-style (only blackpowder styles use firewepons to it's fullest), this is balanced by +1WL, slow recharge (also balanced in-style, out of style recharge disencourages anyone to use these), can't be set ready to fire at any time
- Wheel lock = same benefits as Matchlock weapons, plus tehy can be set ready to fire, disadvantages are: +2WL, slow recharge (balanced in-style, etc etc)
- Pistol = in addition for being weel lock or match lock, pistols gain the benefit of -1mStr for no reason. This can be explained fluff-wise for being smaller yet powerfull weapons. I house rule a shorter range if compared to rifles (if such long range shots are ever a concern in your game)
- Culverin = HANDCANNONS! culverins have a flat damage increase, in exchange for further increased recharge time (+1 trick to reload, even in-style), and increased WL cost (+8WL for +2dmg; +10WL for +4dmg)

Exceptions:
as stated on this thread's opening post, ranged weapons don't follow well these rules, and it's exceptions are hardly justified as fluff changes. Aside from crossbows and pistols, mentioned above, the following weapons also seem to be unbalanced the way I see it.

- shuriken gain the benefit of serving as Social Items for no cost. I'd house rule it to +2 or +3 WL
- Longbows are underpowered if compared to shortbows. I houserule them to 8Q
- masterpiece wheel lock simply doesn't have it's +2WL cost (also, HAX!) Instead, it seems it was built as a mere step up from the masterpiece bow


As you can see, it's not a perfect system. But aside from Roofswords, mounted lances, and some ranged weapons, the system seems to work fine, with eventual tweaks to fit fluff.
khelek
Posted: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:38:26 PM
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Okay, you blew my mind, need to print this out and read my book along side of this.

Carlin
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 5:45:16 AM
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correction: Forgot to add cost for the first ARMOR SPECIAL MOD

- d12 bonus skill dice (make it very specific) (cave boat mail): +2WL (divided among mStr, if you want)
vodacce
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 6:41:00 AM
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Joined: 3/27/2011
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Location: italy
You make a very accurate and good work. I like it. Like Khelek i want to read the corebook with your work now
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