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MacLeod
Posted: Friday, May 29, 2009 4:33:43 AM
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When it boils down to it, the demons inside of a person are much scarier in a real-world sort of way as well. =)

I'm looking forward to seeing how the civilized creatures clash in the setting... I'm usually the sort of fellow who picks 'n' chooses what he wants from a setting and making up the rest. One thing I've never touched on is racial problems but I could see this happening in SK for some reason. =D

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
JoshShaw
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:30:24 AM
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[quote=MacLeod]Okay, version 2. =)]

re: purify unholy.

3 what versus undead/demons?
JoshShaw
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:34:15 AM
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YcoreRixle wrote:
Did you know it can mean "to sing"?


As in "troll the ancient yule-tide carol"

Poul Anderson made that joke in "Three Hearts, Three Lions" circa 1960 or so.

We knew that.

Josh
MacLeod
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:47:38 AM
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I didn't know that. O_O
JoshShaw wrote:
re: purify unholy. 3 what versus undead/demons?
Damage, of course. Unlabeled numbers that stand alone default to damage. =)

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
YcoreRixle
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:32:49 PM
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JoshShaw wrote:
YcoreRixle wrote:
Did you know it can mean "to sing"?


As in "troll the ancient yule-tide carol"

Poul Anderson made that joke in "Three Hearts, Three Lions" circa 1960 or so.

We knew that.

Josh


Hey Josh! Hm, I wasn't making a joke that I was aware of. Just talking some etymology. But yeah, it does come up in Deck the Halls, which is cool. It's a good word for trolls in SK partly because of the singing/artistic connection.

What is the joke in Three Hearts and Three Lions? Just a pun on a troll singing that song?
MacLeod
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:09:28 AM
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I know it was mentioned before but I just want to confirm...
Trolls and Humans are the only playable species, yeah?

But are they the only intelligent life forms in the setting? What I'm getting at is, will there be room for other playable species down the road?

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
JoshShaw
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:35:14 AM
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YcoreRixle wrote:
What is the joke in Three Hearts and Three Lions? Just a pun on a troll singing that song?


The hero, whose name I forget, is off to fight a troll. One of his companions asks if he isn't afraid. "Arfaid", he replies, " Who's afraid of a Christmas song?"

"Huh?"

"Troll the ancient yule-tide carol....."

All laugh.

If you haven't read "Three Hearts, Three Lions", you really owe it to yourself to do so. It's a very old book by now, but it's one of the founding novels of the entire fantasy genre. It's one of the earliest "guy pulled into a fantasy world" novels and I think the first to milk the situation for humor. (Or maybe DeCamp's "Incomplete Enchanter" is).

At any rate, while a lot of the tropes of the novel have become staples of fantasy fiction, this is where they came from. And it's a quick, light-hearted little read, not great literature, very little early SF/Fantasy was, but a reasonably good book nonetheless.

Josh

PS. Tried to get the guys I game with to try out the combat primer tonight, before the game, but they wanted to watch "The Prisoner of Zenda" instead. Silly Mortals. Will try again next week.

J.
YcoreRixle
Posted: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:50:02 PM
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I've known about Three Hearts and Three Lions for a long time, but I haven't ever read it. I'd like to - but there's only so much time in the day! Right now I'm s-l-o-w-l-y reading through R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing trilogy.

Too bad about the guys in your group opting for Prisoner of Zenda! Thanks for the try though - maybe next week. There's an awesome poem about Prisoner of Zenda by Richard Wilbur, by the way... not sure if it's on the 'net. Ah, yep, here it is.

Mac: there are other intelligent creatures in the default setting, but they are rare freaks of magic. I think the way the book puts it is, "A whispering aspen here, a riddling weasel there." When the really powerful creatures become intelligent, they become legends. Dragons, chimeras, jungle striders, those sorts of beasts. The default setting doesn't include intelligent species other than humans and trolls. Nothing to stop it in homebrews, of course. And nothing to stop you from playing an intelligent whatever - squirrel, cloud, fountain - in the default setting either, since these can all happen as magical disasters. But there aren't rules or even guidelines for these magically awakened creatures. Hm, now that you mention it, that would be interesting for an appendix or a supplement or something.
MacLeod
Posted: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:25:53 AM
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Yes, sir, it would. =)
Basic game stats would be easy to hammer out... I'm more interested in the sorts of crazy things that can 'awaken' and gain true sentience. While I've seen the basics of magic is, what I haven't seen is precisely what it can do.
I get crazy ideas about golems* and humans getting fused together through some bizarre transmutation experiment. Maybe I'm thinking too much about D&D's Genasi... I just like the idea of a part stone, part flesh creature. Natural is less interesting than an accidental creation resulting from the abuse of magic.
* Do those exist in the default setting?


I kinda wish you would post the names of the magic traditions to fuel my imaginaaation!
Is there a school of magic dedicated solely to Transmutation? If there is, is it a pretty free form sort of thing? By free form... A character casts the Earth Transmutation spell, with it he can mold such materials into whatever he wants.
Sort of reminds me of a question I wanted to ask... There is alchemy in the game, I assume. Is there much support for it?

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
Suicide King
Posted: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:01:16 PM
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Hey, joining in with a few questions.

You have alluded to pacing and structure aids - what are we talking about here? I like to experiment with these things in games and I thought the implementation in fx. Burning Empires was interesting.

What kind of pacing tools are we talking? Scene structure, demands for certain kinds of conflicts (you mentioned this earlier), etc.?

And a question I got from reading the preview of the combat rules - dice can only explode once, right? So if you roll a 6 on a d6 after rolling 4 on d4, you don't get to roll a d8.

Are there ever static modifiers - is it possible to gain +1 to the value of a roll instead of to dice size?

Lemme mention that I really like what I've seen of the dice system so far. The system in Earthdawn was most definitely not my cup of tea, it's preventing me from playing the game at all. This looks better implemented.

One thing that was my issue with Earthdawn that only actions you are very good at are worth taking. Unless you have a very high step, any action not covered by a talent is virtually an automatic failure. This may more be an issue with target numbers and how our gm set them, but abilities that weren't maxed felt very undependable and marginally useful.
YcoreRixle
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:25:06 PM
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Mac, I seem to have missed responding to your post. Sorry - ok, let's get to some answers here!

Alchemy - oh yes, there is a lot of support for it. The fixer class is brimming over with alchemical goodness, and there are... I'll say around three dozen alchemical items detailed in the game, plus the poisons, so maybe 10 more. I'm going off my memory here, since I'm on vacation as mentioned on the home page, and one of the deals I made with my wife was that there'd be no SK on the vacation (I know, the horror, the horror! :) ). And the Research chapter gives you rules support for developing many more variations on the items that are here. Truth be told, I sometimes wonder if I erred by including classes that could be seen as gadgeteers, the engineer and the fixer. Although the fixer has a social/underworld/healer thing going on besides being just an alchemical brewmaster.

Magic schools. Your wish is my command! The six styles of magic are Dramba, Incandescence, Druidic, Battlecraft, Hearts, and Language of Stars (also called Color of Stars). There are six more grand styles. Golems are in the default game in a variety of ways. There are alchemical golems that are flesh fused with corundum or bark or sadness (remember emotions can be permanently ripped out of people). There are also homunculi and hollow knights crafted by the Spellsmiths (whoops, did I just mention one of the six grand styles?).

In general, magic is more toward the prescribed results end of the spectrum than the freeform Mage:tA end of the spectrum. There is a lot of room for interpretation of form and results, but the schools have a definite list of close spells and high spells, plus a few high secret spells - and that's it, no other knowledge is known to the school.

SK - welcome! The pacing and structure aids are optional, first of all. I don't presume to know what pace works best for everyone, and I've seen a lot of people that enjoy much slower paces than I do. That said, one of the aids is a "scripted game" approach where you plot out the session like a novel: "Combat - Dialogue - Chase - Dialogue - Dialogue - Combat with a reveal" and then that reveal marks the end of the Beginning of the story. The players and GM fill in the specifics about the scenes with some simple guidelines (no meaningless rolls, the scene must have a conflict, the conflict must be resolved one way or the other). But the main thing is that they cross off the scene types as they go, the plot keeps moving forward, and there are a variety of scenes and twists guaranteed to come up in a session.

Another pacing aid is the option to play any "split party" time in scene order. Whether you're back in the village after raiding the pirate haven as a party, or administering to your guilds in separate areas of the city, the scene order playstyle keeps things humming. The turns are resolved quickly, there is a set amount that you can do in a turn, and there's a specific place for organization actions and how you can influence the wider world (change the culture, influence the economy, etc.).

Then there are Investigation and Exploration aids. To my mind, investigation scenarios are often where the pace of an RPG session flags. So there are pacing guids for that, including a threat system kind of like 3:16 Carnage in Space and a "no meaningless scenes" rule that means that either the investigators are advancing or else they're crashing and burning in ways that are going to be at least as meaningful as the investigation.

More tools - but no demands. These are all optional. You can totally play SK like a good old-fashioned 70s/80s party-based one-ten-foot-square-at-a-time game.

Dice can explode multiple times. That is more clear in the final book, sorry about that. So you keep exploding as long as you keep rolling max!

About dice, skill elvels, and actions worth taking - that is definitely not the case in SK. In fact, in SK, the "whiff factor" is kind of up to the group. The default target number in an area - called the doom - is tied to magic and the king. If you start your campaign where I recommend, the doom is 3. (By the way one of the nice things about the doom mechanic is that GMs don't have to struggle wondering what a good target number for something is.) So even if you're not trained in something, with a slightly above average characteristic score of 6, you still have a 66% success chance against a typical task. So you do not need skills to have a change at success. On the other hand, you still have a 33% chance of failure, but if you have a skill at rank 1, then you're rolling a d8 instead of a d6, so you have a 75% chance. That 10% increase is noticeable and worth it, but it's still worth rolling if you don't have it. And of course all this doesn't even include inspirations or mood, and the bonuses that they can give. Frankly I think it's pretty important that people succeed a lot of the time. Whiffing isn't fun. Of course, if you start your campaign in Dynn, or Muda-tarsk, or the An Rach district of Azenahal, well, then... you're just asking for it! :)
Suicide King
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:46:50 AM
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Great, thanks for the responses.

Investigation or detective scenarios are indeed damn hard to pull off. Often it degenerates into "guess what the gm is thinking" or become horrible rail roads. In spite of all it's strengths, this happens very often with Call of Cthulhu I think.

Now for some more mechanical/system wise questions.

How is failure handled? One of the biggest strengths of Burning Wheel (dunno if you are familiar with it) is the Task-Intent division of tests. If you fail a test the only thing that you certainly fail is your intent, it's up to the gm whether the task itself fails. Fx you try to pick a lock so you can get into the room and hide from the guards, you fail - you pick the lock just as the guards come around the corner and see you dive into the room. Can something similar be done in SK? How much freedom is there for the gm to interpret failures and come up with new complications related to them?

Things that actively work against that kind of play style - Testing again (D&D - if you fail, simply try again, if the the gm comes up with complications or let you succeed with a different intent, he is denying you the right to tests again), extended tests with no limit on the number of tests (if you can test any number of times to accumulate successes, when do you actually finally fail and when to complications kick in?).

So a system like oWoD has to be hacked alot to give the gm this freedom, whereas D&D doesn't have to be hacked a lot (pretty much only the craft skills have this issue, for the rest you just say that there is no "test again").

This makes my life as a gm easier as I can enforce the rule that all tests, whether failed or succesfull, somehow advances the story.

Magic

Does the magic system allow for more subtle magics as well? Something in line with 7th Seas' Fate Witches? They manipulate fate to strengthen or weaken bonds between people or concepts, making people fall into or out of love, but also more subtle things like weakening a person financially by weakening the fate bond between his estate and him.

Could something like that work in SK?

MacLeod
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:45:49 PM
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YcoreRixle wrote:
Mac, I seem to have missed responding to your post. Sorry
Don't worry about it, champ. =) Right after I posted that question, you threw up the Fixer class preview which answered quite a few questions by itself.
Those are some interesting sounding magic schools! Can't wait to delve into the specifics. =D

/*~Matthew Miller~*\
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